Norwegian group White Willow's recently annihilated the audience at NEARfest 2001 up in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.  The performance, along with their latest album, Sacrament, has unequivocally established the group as a major part of the current progressive scene.  The man behind White Willow's distinctive brand of gorgeously executed, emotional, and slightly gothic influenced progressive is guitarist/composer Jacob Holm-Lupo, who has been the guiding force behind the group's various incarnations since their first album, Ignis Fatuus came out in 1995.  We are honored to present this interview, conducted graciously via email, with Jacob, as he reflects on progress and musical philosophy, along with an alarmingly humble self-assessment of his group's NEARfest set.  Enjoy.

White Willow has been a band been with a history featuring a number of different musicians.  Why has this been? Ignis Fatuus in particular features a legion of numerous musicians, and judging from the liner notes, tracks were recorded in completely separate sessions.  How were you able to retain such a consistent "feel" with the album considering how spread out the recording process was?

Jacob Holm-Lupo:  In White Willow, the vision I pursue, the concept of the band, has always been slightly more important than the individual musicians. So whenever I  have felt that one or another musician has not been moving along the "straight and narrow" path of White Willow, there have been changes.  I find it quite natural, and a healthy way of keeping the band fresh and forward moving.  As for Ignis Fatuus, I guess the general atmosphere of the music overshadows the fact that the sound and performance changes from song to song.

Do you think that you've finally reached a point of crystallization, where the musicians around you are dedicated enough to stick with White Willow for the long haul? How did the current lineup come together?

Jacob Holm-Lupo: I don't really see it as a goal to keep to same musicians in the band all the time.  It is convenient in periods of frequent live playing, to have a tight band where the players know each other and communicate well.  The current line-up is successful in that respect, and has certainly been together for quite a while now (2 years) while still remaining stable. The band came together in the wake of Ex Tenebris, when I had no band at all.  I am not going to mess with the current line-up if I can help it. As always, though, the music comes first, so there are no guarantees.

How did you guys feel about playing NEARfest 2001? I thought the performance was mind blowing, and judging from the audience response, so did many other people.  Did you expect that kind of reception?

Jacob Holm-Lupo: I was quite dissatisfied with my own performance and the band's in general. When I walked off stage I thought "This is the worst concert we've ever played".  A large part of the problem was that the sound on stage was bizarre throughout most of the concert.  Most of us did not hear ourselves.  But I think enough has been said about that matter.  Our overall impression of NEARfest was VERY GOOD INDEED.  The response was awesome and very surprising to us, as we knew our music was very different from the other bands, very low key and non flashy.  But people seemed to like that, and everyone was very nice.  We had a great time.  We also enjoyed seeing the other bands, especially Underground Railroad and Banco.

How would you explain the effect of festivals like NEARfest in a music community as small as that of progressive rock?

Jacob Holm-Lupo: I don't really know too much about that, but I have noticed that the number of recipients on the WW mailing list has tripled since we came back, so that has to count for something! Certainly, I think the potential audience for this kind of music is much larger than the "prog"-fans themselves think.  NEARfest could have sold at least twice as many tickets if they'd had the capacity

How often do you guys play live in back home in Norway or in Europe in general? Is there a progressive circuit and fanbase there that offers the opportunity to play many shows? How comfortable were you in front of 1000 people at NEARfest?

Jacob Holm-Lupo: We don't play live on a regular basis, but whenever an interesting gig offers itself.  There is a sort of "prog" community here, but we are not really part of it. I don't think it is very big.  Lots of people back here are not too fond of White Willow, as we go against the grain of both proggers and mainstreamers.  Comfortable playing in front of 1000 people? Not me! Johannes loved it, though.

One of the things about playing a show like NEARfest is that you would be sort of accepting the "progressive rock" label. Do you agree with this? Do you feel that being tagged with this label is either a)  inaccurate or b) detrimental to people outside of "progressive rock" discovering your music?

Jacob Holm-Lupo: Difficult question. I have never really felt that White Willow fitted the description as compared to the bands that are supposed to be our "colleagues".  We are nothing like Spock's Beard or The Flower Kings. We are a song writing band, an atmospheric band, a band mixing acoustic and electronic sounds.  As such, we have as much in common with Crowded House or Dead Can Dance or Massive Attack.  But I am also eager to emphasize that we do not deny the influence and presence of progressive rock in our music. Most of us grew up with Camel and Genesis and Crimson and the like, and it is our common denominator, although folk rock, singer/songwriters and classical music have been equal influences.  I don't think playing a prog rock festival is detrimental to anyone.  I like playing for the people who constitute our fan base. But I think it is the loss of the outside world that it is not willing to open itself up to what goes on on the fringes of contemporary music.  Even though bands like Radiohead and Air and numerous other successful "modern rock" bands owe a great deal to progressive rock, the media are not willing to let go of their prejudices - to the extent that Thom Yorke has to make ridiculous statements about how "prog sucks" to not lose his credibility with NME et al.  Lots of people who like Radiohead would probably love White Willow or Porcupine Tree if they were given half a chance.

Do you feel any kinship to the recent surge of Scandinavian progressive bands, particularly those from Sweden like Anglagard, Anekdoten, Par Lindh or Flower Kings?

Jacob Holm-Lupo: When we started out, the only other band we were aware of doing slightly similar things was Landberk, who I've always respected for their integrity.  I also like a lot of Anglagard's stuff, especially Epilog, which is a beautiful record. Anekdoten always sounded like Crimson rip-offs to me, to be honest. The Flower Kings is just not my kind of thing, but they are all brilliant musicians. The difference between WW and all those bands is that at the heart, White Willow is actually a pop band (what an unspeakable revelation!). We like musical ornamentation and intricate, baroque arrangements, but at the center of every WW song lurks the unmistakable shape of a pop song.

In the booklet for "Ex Tenebris" you make explicit your stand on music piracy and (I assume) the issue of mp3 availability. Obviously this is an issue you feel strongly about. Do you think the music industry as a whole will be able to adapt to the increases in technology and ease of piracy? What do you feel the impact to be on independent music groups and labels?

Jacob Holm-Lupo: Frankly, that's a fight I've given up on. But I still am afraid for the existence of smaller labels and bands in the face of what you call "music piracy".  It's not easy being a musician, especially if you're not aiming for the Top 40. The rules regulating royalties is the only guarantee you have that at least a fraction of what you spend making your music will come back to you. The Internet undermines the concept of copyright, and thus endangers the whole institution of royalties.

One of things I never get tired of asking progressive rock bands is how they interpret the relevance of "progressive" rock in today's musical climate.  Do you feel that its the role of "progressive" music to always move forward and create new avenues of expression? Or is their room for bands who attempt to recreate and pay tribute to a bygone era (i.e. the Progressive Rock of the 70s). How do you interpret the overall relevance of "progressive" music today?

Jacob Holm-Lupo: If you listen to the latest Air album, or some of the post rock bands that are playing today, I would say they are the most progressive you can get today. But it is impossible to innovate in the same way bands did in the sixties and seventies, at least while still being listenable! To me, the craft of songwriting is one of the overlooked arts of our time, and honing that craft I would say is somewhat progressive. But I cannot possibly say that White Willow is at the forefront of anything. We are traditionalists. But we are not retro, either. We might have been, on our first album. But it gets kind of depressing living on memories of bygone ages. So while I appreciate the bands that are "keeping the flame alive" (Glass Hammer being the best practitioners of that genre), we are happy to remain slightly contemporary.

Do you write for yourself or with your audience in mind? What do you feel is the role of the musician in approaching this paradox?

Jacob Holm-Lupo: I write for myself. Doing anything else would be so pointless as to be suicidal.  But in my intentions lies a wish to communicate, so there is naturally a concern that what I do should be understood.  It is not a conscious thing, though, but a natural part of writing.  I think the audience comes into the picture not so much in the composing process as in the arranging and production.  In arranging, you give some order to the creative chaos, and in producing you add some sweet gloss to what might otherwise be a somewhat bitter pill.

When looking back over your previous three albums, what songs or albums do you feel strongest about? What do you feel is the legacy that White Willow is leaving behind? What are your future goals for this group, and yourself as a musician?

Jacob Holm-Lupo: I like them all. Ex Tenebris was a very personal album, so I feel a strong attachment to it - it feels like "me".  The first one was just a lot of fun, we were fumbling in the dark, and came up with something that was a little bit unique. Sacrament is the crown of our accomplishments so far - from a non-personal viewpoint it is probably the most complete record we've made so far, and it was a huge step forward in terms of performance and production. Songs: I especially like "Snowfall" from the first, "A Dance of Shadows" and "The Book of Love" from the second and "Paper Moon" and "Anamnesis" from the last.  Legacy? What a big word! Too early for that. But we want to create something beautiful and slightly outside of the world - something that gives the listener pause to reflect and yearn a little.  Future goals? To reach a wider audience, and to make the perfect White Willow album!

Lastly, do you have any plans as far as returning to the U.S. to perform with the group in the future?

Jacob Holm-Lupo: Yes, in the wake of our next studio album we are trying to set up small US tour.  It is something we really want to do, since the US of A have always been good to us!  That's where our favorite fans are.

Big ups to Jacob for taking the time to answer these questions for us, as we certainly appreciate it.  Hopefully we'll see that new studio album and U.S. tour relatively soon.  I for one will be drooling in anticipation.  Visit the band on the web at www.whitewillow.net for more info on the group, as well as contact and ordering information.

       - Greg Northrup, The Giant Progweed [July 2001]